Rick Rubin and the Beastie Boys (almost) open up, 33 years after their split
They were once best friends, pranksters and White Castle confidants who, together, created the first rap record to hit No. 1. But after 1986’s “Licensed to Ill,” as money and control came into play, producer Rick Rubin and the Beastie Boys split. Rubin would go on to became the super-producer (Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tom Petty, Jay-Z) with the flowing gray beard. The Beastie Boys — Adam Horovitz, Adam Yauch and Michael Diamond — would sell more than 20 million records before officially disbanding in 2014, two years after Yauch died of cancer.
Rubin and the Beasties never talked through what went down in the 1980s. The producer regularly sees Diamond because they live near each other in California, but he hadn’t talked to Horovitz in decades — “long enough where I’m not sure why,” Rubin said. That changed when Rubin, Horovitz and Diamond gathered for the “Broken Record” podcast. During the episode, which comes out Tuesday, the three talk about launching a movement from Rubin’s dorm room in the mid-’80s. But they stop short of hashing out whatever conflict led to their break. Rubin addressed that Friday in an interview with The Washington Post from his home in Kauai. (This interview has been edited for clarity.)
Q: You said you tried to work out talking to Adam and Mike for the "Beastie Boys Book," but it didn't come together.
A: Either my studio schedule didn’t allow it because I was working, or he was there on the day that I was traveling or for whatever reason, the stars didn’t align, but I was completely down to do it.
Q: Did you listen to the podcast, Rick?
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A: I did listen to it yesterday, and I never listen to them. This was the first of the podcasts I’ve ever listened to. But this is also the first time I’ve ever talked about a podcast after it’s been recorded.
Q: In the beginning of the podcast, my ears piqued as you mention something weird going down with you and them at the release party for [the Chili Peppers'] "Blood Sugar Sex Magik," which you produced. This is 1991, a few years after the split.
A: Some weird event happened at that party that was rooted in things that we used to do in the studio with the Beastie Boys, like in a coded language that we had, that I thought we were sharing again. This is my memory of it. And Adam kind of made a strange expression when I said the thing that would have been normal for me to say two years earlier. ... I’ve never discussed it with Adam and brought it up in the hopes of getting clarity, which didn’t happen because he changed the subject.
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Q: You also let him change the subject. I feel like you have a bit of an avoidant personality. Like you don't like conflict.
A: No, I do not like conflict. Yeah, I guess my default mechanism would be if someone had some issue to just wait until something happens. Although now as an adult, I’m more likely to take action and be like, hey, what’s going on here?
Q: [Historian and former Def Jam director of publicity] Bill Adler interviewed you in 2010, and you said, "The Beasties leaving broke my heart." It still feels like an unresolved issue.
A: It is. And let me give you an example of something that stunned me from the [podcast], that really took me by surprise, which was the question about my ear infection. [In 1985, the Beastie Boys opened for Madonna with Rubin serving as their DJ. He left after a few dates and was replaced by DJ Hurricane.] Adam said, the word was the doctors said you couldn’t fly and something like “that excuse didn’t fly with me.” And I’m thinking, wow, this guy doesn’t know me at all. Like it was so shocking to assume that someone would feign an illness to not get to be in the Beastie Boys anymore.
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Q: In the podcast, you tell him that you went to see an ear, nose and throat specialist on 14th Street. Not just that you had an ear infection. You actually told him the location. It's as if you just wanted to be like, how could you think I was lying to you?
A: Yes ... and I kind of have a vague memory of this. So what happened was when I left the tour because of my ear, DJ Hurricane filled in for me. Now, again, filled in for me. I always assumed when they came back that when we started doing shows again, I was the DJ. Then the first show happened in the tri-state area. And then it was like, okay. Hurricane’s the DJ. I didn’t say, wait a minute, I can do this one. I’m back. You know, again, we’re all kids. And a lot of stuff was happening really fast. And you don’t stop to analyze anything.
Q: Have you read the Beastie Boys book?
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A: I haven’t.
Share this articleShareQ: So in the book, the way that Adam describes it is — and I'm going to read you the whole thing here — you were going to make a movie and you make a quick comment about splits, saying the Beastie Boys would get 10 percent and he and Russell [Simmons, who co-ran Def Jam Recordings with you] would get 90.
A: I don’t remember any of that ... I don’t remember a time when I talked about business. So it’s odd, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I would say, it sounds out of character. But the other side is I can’t imagine Adam just making that up.
Q: And the final piece, which seems to really have just been the reason that the break occurred, is that at a certain point they held out on making a second album and stopped getting paid royalties on "Licensed to Ill," which sold millions. So he is angry at you and Russell and feels like you guys cut them off.
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A: I didn’t know Adam’s perception of it, but I will tell you from the inside of what was actually going on. The Beastie Boys said that they were leaving Def Jam. When they said they were leaving Def Jam, Def Jam had an exclusive relationship with Columbia Records, which is part of CBS. So the artists were signed to us and we were signed to CBS. But in our being signed to CBS, we were guaranteed to deliver whatever act that we signed. That was our obligation to them. So when the Beastie Boys announced that they’re leaving Def Jam and started shopping a deal, which they did, CBS cut off all royalties — not only going to the Beastie Boys — they cut off all royalties, going to Def Jam and all of our artists.
Q: So you're saying, that's not Russell and Rick cutting them off.
A: Now, again, they don’t know that because we never talked about it. ... Again, I hold no grudge on them not knowing that. How would they know that?
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[Diamond and Horovitz declined to comment for this story. But a representative for the band sent a statement about Rubin’s description: “Unfortunately this recollection does not match up with the reality of the events at that time.” Simmons said Saturday in a phone interview that he couldn’t remember who withheld money from the Beastie Boys. But he regrets how he handled the conflict. “The greatest mistake in my career was not managing the Beastie Boys better,” Simmons said.]
Q: Rick, I know you guys don't talk about this stuff, but this book came out like last year, and if there is a disagreement over the facts, it seems like a simple conversation might have been helpful, right?
A: Of course, yes. One hundred percent. ... And again, I haven’t read the book so I don’t know. But I probably remember an entirely different situation of our time together. And I’m not saying mine’s right. Who knows? It’s long enough ago that who knows. ... But that’s the beauty. It’s like one of the reasons that I wanted to bring up places like Danceteria in our conversation with them was just to try to tune in to what we were feeling at that time so that we would remember. Now they had the advantage of having done that with each other for the book. I wasn’t part of that. For me, it was fascinating because it was the first time I re-engaged in that way.
Q: Rick, I'll tell you, this may have not brought you guys closure, but the idea of you three coming together to talk was really special.
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A: It was amazing. [Pauses] Can I ask you one favor?
Q: Sure. Yeah.
A: I hope that however you frame this, I’m looking forward to reconnecting with Adam as a friend, and it’s funny that I’m having this quote-unquote “public conversation” before having a conversation with Adam, which is a little strange. But I understand you’re on a deadline, so that’s why we’re doing this now. Normally I would say, you know what? I’d want to talk to Adam first.
Q: It sounds like you two just need to talk more and maybe not with a recording device going.
A: Yeah, and maybe “need” is not the word — I would say I desire it and I hope he desires it, and if he does desire it and I desire it, then we’ll do it. And again, I reached out to him. He said, yes, let’s get up. I love Adam. I miss him in my life. I felt like the conversation in the podcast was an opportunity to open the door.
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